Edit
right next to the section title, rather than starting a new topic. Thanks!Early History[]
Wow, lots of good stuff! I wish I had been able to participate in Tigra's session at SciWorld. -IndyFan 02:38, 10 May 2011 (PDT)
- Having been there helps in regard to knowing the information... -Marnstar 08:15, 10 May 2011 (PDT)
- Fortunately, we have transcripts. :) -IndyFan 12:06, 12 May 2011 (PDT)
USF and NAGF[]
Overall, good work. A few discrepancies.
"~ The United Simming Federation (USF) is formed by Admiral Andy Clements and starts with a single ship, the USS Excelsior. However, Andy skillfully exploits the SFOL break up and recruits heavily. Soon, USF launches the U.S.S. Stealth (under the command of Captain Connery) and later the U.S.S. Potemkin. The group expands rapidly and soon replaces SFOL as the largest sim club on AOL. However, this should be put into terms of SFOLs break up. USF never becomes a large or dominating as SFOL was at its height."
The actual formation of USF took place in early 1995 (March or April), not 1994. Don't know when the SFOL break-up took place but NAGF run by Forum Leader MartialLaw was also, formed around this time.
"~ Admiral Andy Clements of the United Space Federation (USF) becomes the head of the Non Affiliated Gaming Forum (NAGF) on AOL, replacing Harven. Through his skill and shear forcefulness, Andy is able to provide the private simming community on AOL the same resources Spacefleet Online (SFOL) enjoys. This immensely helps level the playing field and allows the clubs on AOL have survived 1997 to pull themselves back together by getting enhanced message boards, forums, and recruiting tools (a very big deal in those days)."
This is incorrect. Jesse Burton (OGF Havran) remained the FL (Forum Leader) for Non-Affiliated Gaming Forum (eventually called Diaspora Games) until at least 2000. Andy Clements joined NAGF Team in or around January 1998 and eventually became the Assistant Forum Leader and given RAINMAN access and put in charge of NAGF's effort to provide forum space (previously all NAGF provided was message boards and conference rooms) to larger sim groups. Jesse Burton worked very hard to manage the Dark Gothic and NAGF areas (which he was FL for) and provide groups with conference rooms, message boards, file libraries, and forum space.
"~ Spacefleet Online (SFOL) on AOL begins to fade into the background and lose its status as a major club on AOL, as does the Non Affiliated Gaming Forum (NAGF) as AOL begins to withdraw resources from the two forums. Both of these actions have a profound impact on the simming community. As AOL shuts down simming chat rooms, recruiting boards, and forums over the subsequent year, AOL clubs are forced to move to the Internet. AOL quickly loses its status as the center of the simming community and clubs that remain exclusively focused on AOL begin to die out."
I disagree with the year, placement. NAGF is renamed but it is not clear at this time that AOL would be completely altering the system of management and revoking tools from AOL's Community Leaders in early 2000. Unfortunately due to these changes in AOL's Community Leader Program the OGF (AOL's Online Gaming Forum which included SFOL, NAGF, Dark Gothic and other groups) is decimated.
Sorry, forgot to sign. 70.58.186.52 01:29, 17 May 2006 (EDT)
The SFOL breakup dates and info is accurate as far as I can tell. I don't know too much about the USF or NAGF history... NAGF was just based on my external observations, if you have inside info, please correct :-) The USF dates came from Seth I believe... and he tended to space on dates :-) --Chas 19:54, 17 May 2006 (EDT)
sector001.com says the USF was founded in 1995, so I moved the founding bit from 1994 to 1995. I also moved the bit about SFOL/NAGF from 1999 to 2000. --Chas 15:49, 20 Jul 2006 (EDT)
ASG[]
Dill, thanks for taking the lead on adding in ASG related history. It's greatly apprechiated! Hopefully you can encourage others from the ASG to come here and record the great ASG story. Just for future reference, you can edit the entire article by clicking on the edit tab at once... it helps keep our moderators sane so we only have a few things to review, not 2 dozen different edits :-) Also, when you edit... at the bottom you can include a summary... just a note saying something general like "Added info about the ASA merger or whatever" it'll help us keep track of what was added :-) --Chas 21:36, 19 Jun 2006 (EDT)
Federation/Klingon Alliance[]
This article says the group was founded in 1993, however the article for that group says it was only founded in 1997. - Chris 15:09, 20 Jul 2006 (EDT)
Humm... the clubs website (http://www.fka.org/) says its been around since 1993 in one form or another... maybe they had a major split in 1997 and were reformed? --Chas 15:51, 20 Jul 2006 (EDT)
FKA took in a couple SFOL sims, which existed since 1993. Their founding date is in 1997. --Shuni 11:18, 21 Jul 2006 (EDT)
This issue continues to bug me; we should resolve the matter if possible.--ChasTOL (talk) 15:14, May 31, 2014 (UTC)
Individual Sims[]
Should events from individual sims be included on this page or should we just stick to major events of clubs/groups? Thoughts? IndyFan 07:14, 1 January 2011 (PST)
- I'm sure you are referring to my additions to this from about midnight, so...I added that because for a while at the very least, if not now, the Cambrian was and probably still is the fleetwide flagship for Sixth Fleet. It has been the command of 3 of our C-in-Cs, 2 DC-in-Cs were XOs on that ship, and the peaceful transfer of command has been making people wonder if this is the new leaders of the fleet soon... Marnstar 13:04, 1 January 2011 (PST)
- I see where you're coming from on this and why it's important to Sixth Fleet, but I think we're getting a little too into the weeds for the timeline of simming. Have any of the previous Cambrian change of commands been listed on this page? I created a USS Cambrian page yesterday... As you can see it still needs a lot of work! :) IndyFan 00:35, 2 January 2011 (PST)
- No one else has any thoughts about this??? -IndyFan 07:44, 27 January 2011 (PST)
Bremer Commission[]
This is not the place to say why someone did or said something, but simply to tell what happened. If someone wants more in depth information, they can click on the appropriate article. Right now the Bremer Commission bullet says that the Bremer Report was critical of the due process afforded to Mike Bremer, and that Bravo Fleet denounced the report as biased and ill-informed. If someone wants to know how the Bremer Commission or Bravo Fleet came to their conclusions, they can click on the articles. -IndyFan 08:42, 18 January 2011 (PST)
Death of simmers[]
I believe we should develop a policy concerning adding information about the death of simmers to the timeline. Deaths are a tragic occurrence, and I mean no disrespect to anyone. Clearly, information concerning the death of a simmer should be included in the article concerning the simmer, provided of course the information comes from reliable sources and can be documented. This is fitting and proper. For the timeline, however, the purpose of the timeline is to mark significant events in the simming community. The death of Seth Cotis, I believe, is proper to include in the timeline as it resulted in major political repercussions in the SLA. The death's of other simmers, however sad, may not necessarily rise to this level and should not be included in the timeline.--ChasTOL (talk) 15:13, May 31, 2014 (UTC)
I do agree with Chas for the most part, but for some, Seth Cotis included, the repercussions are more than for just a single fleet, but they have some impact on the over all simming community. Case in point, Seth was more than just a leader in SLA, but he was a teacher to some in the community, he trained me, Tigra Tigress being a member of the Oberth 7 was figurehead leader in the community for years due to her decades of experience and leadership. Others with no disrespect intended, I don't feel should be listed, eventually (hopefully another 80 years or so in what ever form this list will be taking at that time) as a strong community leader I would think Chas, himself should be listed again due to the impact on the overall community. --AndJessLove (talk) 16:28, June 1, 2014 (UTC)
Because of years with my mother, I knew the basic rules of simming, and even for the most part formating. When I wanted to learn to sim, my mother refused to teach me or have me go through the Continuum Online Academy since it would have looked like she was treating me differently, plus she didn't want me to make her look bad. As such, she sent an email to somebody who she knew in the community from a different group and asked him to train me. What Seth focused on with me was character development, first by having me write a bio for my character, than as a second lesson, I was told to expand on the bio and have it be extremly long so that I would really know my character. After that I would get random messages putting my character in any situation that Seth could think of and forcing me to react so that my character became an extention of myself and I would know how my character would think and act at anytime and any place. Along the way he would work on any formating corrections that he saw and explain the reason for the format changes, but mostly it was about knowing my character and what she was thinking at a drop of a hat and being able to react. --AndJessLove (talk) 04:39, June 2, 2014 (UTC)
Death of a Simmer[]
I do not believe death of simmers should be noted here within the history of simming, or really on any of our wiki pages unless they can be cited from an obituary or public death notice. We need information on this wiki to be creditable insomuch as it can be. Obviously dealing with sims and things of that nature not everything can be cited or referenced but something such as the death of a real person should be cited and referenced for it to be part of the wiki.
FSF Titan (talk) 12:26, June 5, 2014 (UTC)Joe Ferguson
- I agree with the points made above. The dangers of requiring events within our community be cited have been well documented so I'm not going to get into that here. Titan, however, makes a good point in that things that happen outside of the community (that have effects *on* the community) should require some sort of citation or confirmation. These types of events (e.g., deaths) are generally verifiable with reliable sources, and therefore we should use them whenever possible.
- As for whether any particular death is notable enough for this page... that's a whole 'nother ball game. I think specific criteria needs to be spelled out and agreed upon before we start deciding on particular individuals. For example, precedence has been set that major simming conventions (e.g., FallFest and SciWorld) are only mentioned on the timeline 1) the first time the occur or 2) if they happen after a break from their planned or regular operation. It would get redundant to mention every single FallFest or SciWorld. For deaths, criteria might include if it was unexpected or if the person was in a leadership position. I'm not committing to either of those, but rather throwing the general concept out for discussion. Ultimately, the criteria should determine whether or not the death was disruptive to the community--did the death have significant impact? That's the general (i.e., ultimate or broad) criteria for *all* events on this page, and I think we should build our specific death criteria from that. CharlesStar (talk) 16:06, June 8, 2014 (UTC)
Recurring Conventions[]
I think we need to establish some guidelines for whether or not recurring community conventions (e.g., SciWorld, FallFest, Khitomer, Babel, etc.) should be included on this page. I'm not sure that every one is notable enough to include on the timeline. What I mean by that is that we probably shouldn't list every single SciWorld here, for example. In the past, we've only added them if one of these criteria was met:
- The first time it's held (presumably, that would also include the last time it's held)
- If there was a gap between conventions (e.g., it skipped one or more years)
- There was a change in sponsorship or ownership (e.g., moving from The Simming League to OngoingWorlds)
- A change in the way it's held or some other major compelling change (e.g., adopting the club-host model)
Thoughts, Greenfelt22 (talk)?
CharlesStar (talk) 15:49, 15 July 2021 (UTC)
Anniversaries[]
I've gone through and added some club anniversary information for events I either knew about or was able to find data on. As for criteria for inclusion, I've gone with the event having to meet at least one of these:
- Numerical significance (e.g. 10th, 20th, 25th, etc.)
- Event significance (e.g., the first Obsidian Day on Obsidian Fleet's 16th anniversary)
However, the best entries are those that meet both criteria.
CharlesStar (talk) 21:01, 5 September 2021 (UTC)
Nicholas de Sim[]
- Emerging from the ancient Delta
- The Rebel lays waste to the First Kingdom
- Mountains fall and floods rise as his plunder sees no end
- He will not be displaced
Nicholas de Sim (talk) 08:21, 22 January 2022 (UTC)
Fake Simming Prize[]
In February 2022, A fake simming prize was announced in an attempt to steal it from the original Simming Prize located at the .org. The .com fake simming prize has attempted to edit this wiki to reflect incorrect and false information. I have gotten it reverted for now and recommend that this page be locked until the issue is resolved. ItWasntMe223 (talk) 14:41, 24 February 2022 (UTC)